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Larry : So are you saying to me that there is no world ?

SWAMIJI : There is no world , finally — perfectly correct . Now further dont talk !

Larry : Theres nobody to talk to .

SWAMIJI : It requires a plumbing into yourself . You go deep into your own self , because you are the answer to your questions . You , yourself are the answer . You will find that every answer comes from inside , which is a universal , bottomless sea , which is what you are . Deep practice of meditation is necessary . Place yourself in the context of that which is between you and that which you see — between that which you are and that which you think in your mind .

Deep meditation and a going into one’s own self — you see , listen . Whenever you think , you always think in a dualistic fashion — you are the thinker and there is a thought that you think ; you are the thinker and there is an object that you are thinking of . Neither should you think of yourself , nor should you think of that which appears to be an object of your mind . Let that thing which is between you and the object transfer you to that middle position .

Can you transfer your consciousness ?

Put it here , your consciousness should sit here . Can it sit here ? Now it is inside your body . It is operating through the body and you are seeing through the aperture of your eyes and then perceiving a person like me here . You unlock your consciousness which is now tied up within the body , and concentrate in such a way that you are here in the middle , just now .

Larry : Outside my body ?

SWAMIJI : Yes ; and you are seeing both — not So-and-so Krauss seeing , it is some non-Krauss which is between both , seeing Krauss on the other side , Krishnananda this side . Then you will see that you are a different person altogether . You become a superhuman in one second . Now you are a human because you are looking through the medium of your eyes , through this body , at another thing , which is outside ; that is human-thinking .

Superhuman-thinking is a thought that is between both the subject and the object , which is transcendent to both subject and object , and also immanent in another way — both transcendent and immanent . A superhuman thinks in terms of the transcendent that is between the subject and the object , whereas the human mind thinks only of one side and cuts itself off from that which it perceives . So we should try to think like superhumans and not simply like humans .

Humans cannot answer human questions . No human can answer human questions . Every human is like any other human ; there is no difference . But there is a superhuman element in humans that transcends human thought and which is above both the perceiver and the perceiving consciousness . It is a big circus feat , a feat that you have to perform in your consciousness . It is not the usual way of thinking , but it is a very , very necessary way of thinking , if you want to be impartial in your thoughts and happy in your mind . Otherwise , you will be always one-sided . Your balance will be swinging this side or that side and it will never be equalised .

Larry : But the moment I place myself in that position . . .

SWAMIJI : You will see neither yourself nor the world at that time . You will see something connecting both . Almost it is like GOD-vision . It is almost here on the lap of GOD , if you think like that . GOD is a balance between the subject and the object . That is GOD , and GOD is nothing but consciousness . So if you can think , if you can operate your consciousness as that which subsists between the seer and the seen , you are actually on the lap of GOD .

Almost it is GOD-thinking , and you cease to be a person afterwards . It will transform you to such an extent ( this exercise which I am mentioning to you ) that if you can do it for even a few minutes consistently , with deep thought and intensity , in a few minutes you will find some tremendous vibration taking place in your personality and you will not be the same person that you were a little before . It will rejuvenate your personality physically , mentally , even socially . You will be a different individual .

People will see " something " in you . The moment they look at your face they will know there is " something " , some value is coming — because it is not a human that is coming . It is another thing that is coming through this personality of human .

I am telling all this because here a little practice is necessary . You need not read too much and discuss too much . The matter is simple . The proof of the pudding is in its eating . You have to eat it ; that is all — otherwise you go on discussing about the pudding and there is no purpose .

So , I request you to do some practice every day and try to think only along these lines . Let there be no other way of thinking . This is your habit ; in your personal life , in you social life , in you legal life , whatever life , you think only along these lines . This is your way of thinking ; give up the old way of thinking which is a dichotomy between subject and object , where you are obliged to take sides . You either take the subjective side or the objective side ; you cannot strike a balance . It is very difficult because the habit of the mind is to get locked up in the body of one’s own self and then have some like or dislike , love or aversion to another body . It is a kind of malady .

The consciousness locked up in a body is in a state of malady . It is sick actually ; it is suffering , and so all our thoughts are a kind of sick thought . It is not natural and normal thought . So , neither are we happy nor can we make another person happy . A kind of total transformation of values is necessary by rethinking in a new model altogether , so that you dont think through the body but through a way which is away from the body .

In the Yoga of Patanjali , there is a beautiful , very much neglected sutra ( sutra means aphorism ) . People neither read it nor understand it .


That is all the translation of the sutra . When Patanjali speaks of " outside " , it actually means " free from the shackles of bodily encasement " , which is another way of mentioning just what I told you now . You are not sitting there ; when I say " you " I mean the consciousness .

This Mr consciousness-Krauss , whatever it is , is sitting inside this so-called body . Let it come out of this body and sit here on this carpet and look at it , and you become your own object and your attachment to the body ceases . Now you are thinking that you are a physical subject , so the consciousness clings to the body to such an extent that you think nothing but your own body . Let that thing which you now consider as your physical subject be an object , and you will be as much detached from it as you are detached from any other person sitting here — because you are not this ; you are another thing that is looking at you . And you will look at yourself in the same way as you look at other people .

You are not concerned with the fate of these people here ; you wont bother ; and you will also not be concerned with this body at that time , because you are another than what you appeared to be earlier . You are as much an object as anybody else . But why should you consider yourself a subject ? That is the whole point ; that is the mistake .

That exercise is possible only if you are able to concentrate as this Patanjali sutra says : Transfer yourself to a position which is not the body — wider than the body — between the subject and the object , transcending both , and yet immanent in both . You become a GOD-human . You will not be a human at all . You will be something other than the ordinary human .

Larry : Is there no significance to one’s personality ?

SWAMIJI : The personality will be taken care of by that which includes both this personality and the other — like the body taking care of two hands . You need not ask the right hand ,

" What is your connection with the left hand ? "

You need not have to put questions like that , because the right hand belongs to that to which the left hand also belongs ; so the body will take care of both . The subject belongs to that to which the object also belongs , and that particular thing is what I am emphasising , which is the real you . So , everything will be taken care of automatically . No problem will arise .

Larry : It still begs one question for me . What was the point in the first place of having individual personalities ?

SWAMIJI : You are asking the question , why it took place . It will be known to you when you transcend this body ; when you are above this body you will know the answer to this question . Again I told you , you are flashing a torchlight on ignorance . You cannot know ignorance through knowledge ; they are contradictories . The question is a part of ignorance and the answer that you expect is a part of knowledge . As they are contradictories , one cannot know the other . You cannot see dream in waking ; you cannot know waking in dream . Both cannot be simultaneously existing .

So , theoretical questions are of no utility . You will find that in practice you will get the answer . The whole problem will vanish like mist before the sun , if you can concentrate properly . There is no need of questioning . It will solve itself automatically .

Sarah : All the wisdom that a person gets while in the body , through suffering , through personal growth , through maturity — what is the worth of that ? Does it have any worth ?

SWAMIJI : Yes , through that only you are thinking now ; otherwise , how will you think ? The knowledge has arisen gradually by the process of evolution from the lower stages to the higher stages , and now the stage that you have reached is the human stage . What I am referring to is something beyond the human stage .

Sarah : So you can only get to the human stage when you are always within the body .

SWAMIJI : Already you have reached the human stage , and you are now thinking through the human mind , but you have to think through the divine mind . That is what I am referring to . There is a stage higher than the human way of thinking , which is the divine way of thinking . But we have not reached that state yet . We think only as human beings , but there is a way of thinking which is not human — superhuman — that is what I was mentioning just now .

Of course , it has gradually evolved from the lower stage and it has come through the body . You are perfectly right . From mineral to plant , plant to animal , animal to human , human to GOD — that is how it will rise gradually .

Sarah : And you only get to the divine way of thinking through meditation and deep thought , right ?

SWAMIJI : Mediation . Yes , certainly . Yes , yes , perfectly right .



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